Report 851
Report #851 Skillset: Necromancy Skill: DeathWeapon Org: Ur'Guard Status: Completed Jun 2012 Furies' Decision: We felt the solutions provided were overly complex or powerful. We have instead opted for an idea brought up in the comments - deathmark levels will decrease the healing of wounds via health applications. Problem: This is another attempt at addressing the very useless skill that is DeathWeapon, I will begin by saying that the passive build of Deathmark is unviable in a group scenario(you can't build upon others deathmark or benefit from another necromancers deathmark) Deathmark currently extends the time it takes to gain balance from crucify by 1 second as well as provide a boost in plague afflictions from the Contagion skill which as a warrior, trying to use the cross to sacrifice is extremely unreliable and is not usually attempted at all. In addition to this, Deathweapon gives a very very small chance to afflict with a contagion afflict. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: In addition to solution 2(Both sub-options in DeathweaponONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE) Allow the Necromancer to channel the cold of the grave into his or her weapon, surpressing the ability to actively use ColdAura(3p for archliches, 5p for non-archliches) but allowing the warrior to afflict with cold on hit(50% proc for 2h 25% for 1h). Remove the malus and chance for contagion afflict as well as keep the same active mana drain from Coldaura as well. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to Solution 1(Both sub-options in DeathweaponONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE)Allow the Necromancers to channel the powers of contagion into the weapon at a cost(3p for archliches, 5p for non-archliches) and without the ability to breathe contagion actively. This would cause the weapon to afflict festeringwounds(not an actual affliction) that slows the application rate of deepwounds by 10% which dissapates at negligible wounds(can't festerwounds on cuts and scratches) this percentage could be up to 15% on heavy and critical(bigger wounds mean more meat to rot) Remove the malus and chance for contagion afflict for this solution as well. 0 R: 0 Solution #3: In addition to solution 1 and 2(Both sub-options in DeathweaponONLY HAVE ONE ACTIVE) give the Necromancer the ability to imbue weapons with both the cold of the grave and disease(Won't be able to coldaura or breathe contagion) for a stat bonus +10 speed +10 prec for 1 handers, +10 speed +20 prec for 2 handers. As before the chance for small contagion afflict would be removed. Player Comments: ---on 5/5 @ 19:55 writes: I don't really like this report at all. Solution one allows for a warrior to pretty consistently keep someone off their purgative balance (you're going to have to sip each time you're hit, especially with dual-wielding specs). The closest that I can come is being somewhat interested by a concept of Solution 2: Perhaps, with higher deathmarks, have deepwounds cured at a slower rate (up to 15% fewer wounds healed per application at the highest deathmark level). This would more than counter the lowered statistics. ---on 5/10 @ 05:55 writes: I can see Solution 1, if it's 50% for a 2h weapon and halved to 25% for 1h swings. (We're talking a single application of chills, yes?) ---on 5/25 @ 06:00 writes: Adjusted solution 1 percents for 2h and 1h weapons. ---on 6/1 @ 22:39 writes: Even with the reduced percentages for dual-wielding weapons, the percentages are too high-- I just still don't like the suggested solutions here. A straight wound-application-reduction aura is excessive as well. If something -needs- to be done, the best solution I can see is still the one in my comment- reduce wound application based on higher deathmarks. That also gives warriors more of a reason to build 'em. ---on 6/3 @ 20:19 writes: I'm in full agreement with Xynthin. Whatever solution goes through on this report, it should escalate based deathmark level. Since cleansing deathmark is not feasible during battle, the solution should not be overwhelming, though still provide a very useful boost to the Ur'Guard. Personally, I'm also a fan of the reduced wound healing with per deathmark, though if that isn't possible, increased wound building is also acceptable here. I'm not at all a fan of being able to hit with double cold every 3 seconds, so I'll reject that completely. ---on 6/9 @ 00:29 writes: I agree with Xenthos' assessment. A wound reduction aura that scales with deathmarks seems to be a better choice. ---on 6/14 @ 00:22 writes: I will refer you to the problem stated, that building deathmark is highly unlikely and useless for warriors as the other benefits of building deathmark are directly related to Nihilist abilities up to and including crucify and sacrifice. Also worth noting, to build deathmark as suggested by Xenthos and Shuyin would require the warrior go against normal warrior weapon combat to do so. ---on 6/15 @ 19:22 writes: I really like the festering wounds concept, so would be neat if that could be made workable somehow. Perhaps passing certain wounding thresholds on your target could provide increased benefit? Something like: if target has 2000+ total wounds on their body, deathmark level rises, if target has 3000+ total wounds deathmark level rises + afflicted with plague affliction? The festering wounds check ticking every X seconds? ---on 6/15 @ 22:23 writes: Doesn't deathmark get increased by attacking with weapons? How does that 'go against normal warrior combat'? The only thing I can think of is that it makes the weapon a little slower, but by having increased deathmarks cause increased wounding you're trading some speed for more effect in the long term-- that's not against warrior combat at all! ---on 6/16 @ 05:42 writes: Doesn't deathmark get decreased by cleanse? (yes) Which is entirely feasible during combat, contrary to what Rivius said above, so you are not really increasing wounding for trading some speed, you are only forcing the enemy to cleanse every so often, which they will do, as I assure you happens. Can easily provide logs of it, or just force any M&M user to get into a cleanse loop. Any ability that -requires- deathmark to be built up in the longrun will not be used with how easily it is to cleanse away, especially with soap. If you want to fix DeathWeapon for Ur'Guard, do not require it to be based off of DeathMark levels which are easily reduced. ---on 6/16 @ 18:44 writes: Deathmark is increased by attacking with weapons. Maybe a better phrase would have been 'normal ur'guard warrior combat' as sacrifice is all about impossible as an ur'guard warrior and attempting to do so is completely undependable in a 1vs1 situation or a group situation where Nihilists would be available ---on 6/22 @ 21:34 writes: If someone's cleansing to cure off deathmarks, they're letting you have your way with them as a warrior. Scrubbing = no action = warrior is not being hindered. That's like, one of the main facets of deathmark... using it burns up enemy actions. ---on 6/23 @ 06:27 writes: Its like you are just ignoring any of the problems stated in the multiple reports on this: 'Due to how the --->scaling<--- works, deathmark is only of remote use in 1v1 situations yielding a plague aff low % chance at the sacrifice of damage, precision, and speed.' from report 767. What you are trying to suggest is the exact same thing but change the plague aff into making it harder to cure wounds, yet ignoring the entirety of the problem: DEATHWEAPON, the skill used by Ur'Guard that lowers the stats on their weapons, requires levels built up by DEATHMARK, a skill used by Nihilists and Ur'Guard, which if it weren't so easy to get rid of, you'd have plenty of problems fighting Nihilists. Like I said before, if you want to fix DEATHWEAPON for Ur'Guard, you have to make it unreliable on DEATHMARK, because of the ease to remove mark levels. Not to mention, what you are suggesting is the same thing as Solution 2, but completely ignoring the problem: Deathweapon is unuseable due to its reliance on DeathMark, especially with lowered stats. ---on 6/23 @ 06:30 writes: Now, a few things to go over if your suggested solution goes in with DeathWeapon being relied on DeathMark. DeathMark is -useless- until level 12, when it gives you a bal/eq less diagnose. The crucifix bonus only happens at level 15. What you are suggesting is what takes a Ur'Guard, on average, assuming no hindering, 37.5 seconds to build up a full DeathMark after marking the enemy, and wounds becoming harder to cure based on that DeathMark level. After 38 seconds, that Ur'Guard will finally be at that 15% and be able to make an impact. I don't know if you've ever played a burst class offense, but I can easily get off two kill scenarios in that time with a bit of luck, before the Ur'Guard has even built up to level 15 to get that 15% harder to cure wounds. Oh, and what happens after I used up my offense, waiting for power to regain, while this Ur'Guard has been building up deathmark? Oh I think I'm just going to walk out of the room and cleanse a few times, there goes that 37.5 seconds that Ur'Guard has to build up for, assuming they were Aslaran of course. Once again, DeathMark, and by extension, DeathWeapon is entirely useless to a class that has a much harder time preventing you from leaving the room as most other classes, and can easily be cured down. ---on 6/24 @ 01:37 writes: A few things to go over if my suggested solution goes in: Deathmark won't be useless until level 12, because it will be increasing wounding at all levels, just scaling up as it increases. You're just arbitrarily stating that unless it is at max level it has no effect and thus it's 'pointless until then'. That's just... not the case. (Well, that's one thing, but your comments don't really make any sense to me given how the skill is designed, built, and intended to work-- and it can be tweaked so that it is useful while still remaining within the intended scope). ---on 6/24 @ 04:38 writes: Again, its like you are ignoring the problem. You have a chance to inflict plague affs at any level, its just increased at higher DeathMark levels, so in reality it actually does do something before level 12, it just really sucks. You are trying to do the same thing as Solution 2, but instead of having it based on wound levels, have it based on DeathMark levels, which as repeated in ad nauseum, is the problem with the skill, due to how scaling works. Scaling it off of DeathMark is the problem, as repeated. Your solution doesn't even account for the reduced stats on the weapons, which is another problem stated, nor does it account for the fact that its basing it off of DeathMark levels, which once again stated, is the problem. If you happen to notice at all the solutions, they suggest removing the malus, and not a single solution is presented around levels of the opponents DeathMark. Solution 2 is suggested to scale against the person's wounds, what a Warrior actually builds up for, instead of the DeathMark levels, like your solution, like against the stated problems with the skill already. ---on 6/24 @ 19:27 writes: It's more like you're ignoring how warrior combat works. Anything a warrior can do passively, in addition to their standard attacks, is of great benefit-- and something that takes balance to cure is a *significant* bonus. You're also ignoring repeated Admin decisions where they have either said or strongly implied they -will not remove the malus-. PS: Increased wounding more than addresses lowered stats, and makes it so one would actually want to cure the deathmarks, chewing up their balance. ---on 6/25 @ 17:58 writes: Honestly, if nothing else, the complex solutions make this a pain to read, and likely a pain for people to understand. Combat's complex enough as it is, so I'm iffy about it. I still like the idea of just giving a small wound increase (or healing malus) with each deathmark level. ---on 6/30 @ 03:14 writes: This would be pretty cool, but if it's not balance/too complicated (i'm not an authority on warrior combat and am hesitant to offer a firm opinion) some kind of smaller change like the deathmark/healing malus idea would be good too.